diff --git a/src/blackmisc/containerbase.h b/src/blackmisc/containerbase.h
index ab7a55f04..cfda5e915 100644
--- a/src/blackmisc/containerbase.h
+++ b/src/blackmisc/containerbase.h
@@ -42,12 +42,29 @@ namespace BlackMisc
         static QString stringify(QString str, bool /*i18n*/) { return str; }
     };
 
+    // forward declaration
+    template <template <class> class C, class T, class CIt>
+    class CContainerBase;
+
+    //! \private
+    template <template <class> class C, class T, class CIt>
+    struct CValueObjectStdTuplePolicy<CContainerBase<C, T, CIt>> : public CValueObjectLegacy
+    {};
+
     /*!
      * \brief Base class for CCollection and CSequence adding mutating operations and CValueObject facility on top of CRangeBase.
      */
     template <template <class> class C, class T, class CIt>
-    class CContainerBase : public CValueObject, public CRangeBase<C<T>, CIt>
+    class CContainerBase : public CValueObjectStdTuple<CContainerBase<C, T, CIt>>, public CRangeBase<C<T>, CIt>
     {
+        //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::compare
+        friend int compare(const C<T> &a, const C<T> &b)
+        {
+            if (a.size() < b.size()) { return -1; }
+            if (a.size() > b.size()) { return 1; }
+            return std::lexicographical_compare(a.cbegin(), a.cend(), b.cbegin(), b.cend());
+        }
+
     public:
         /*!
          * \brief Return a new container of a different type, containing the same elements as this one.
@@ -127,7 +144,7 @@ namespace BlackMisc
             }
         }
 
-    protected: // CValueObject overrides
+    protected: // CValueObjectStdTuple overrides
         //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::convertToQString
         virtual QString convertToQString(bool i18n = false) const override
         {
@@ -140,27 +157,6 @@ namespace BlackMisc
         //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::getMetaTypeId
         virtual int getMetaTypeId() const override { return qMetaTypeId<C<T>>(); }
 
-        //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::isA
-        virtual bool isA(int metaTypeId) const override
-        {
-            if (metaTypeId == qMetaTypeId<C<T>>()) { return true; }
-            return CValueObject::isA(metaTypeId);
-        }
-
-        //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::compareImpl
-        virtual int compareImpl(const CValueObject &other) const override
-        {
-            const auto &o = static_cast<const CContainerBase &>(other);
-            if (derived().size() < o.derived().size()) { return -1; }
-            if (derived().size() > o.derived().size()) { return 1; }
-            //for (auto i1 = derived().cbegin(), i2 = o.derived().cbegin(); i1 != derived().cend() && i2 != o.derived().cend(); ++i1, ++i2)
-            //{
-            //    if (*i1 < *i2) { return -1; }
-            //    if (*i1 > *i2) { return 1; }
-            //}
-            return 0;
-        }
-
         //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::marshallToDbus
         virtual void marshallToDbus(QDBusArgument &argument) const override
         {
diff --git a/src/blackmisc/dictionary.h b/src/blackmisc/dictionary.h
index 3b0c3304f..f6fd130b8 100644
--- a/src/blackmisc/dictionary.h
+++ b/src/blackmisc/dictionary.h
@@ -74,10 +74,26 @@ namespace BlackMisc
     struct AssociativityTraits : public Private::AssociativityTraits<Private::ADL::SupportsQHash<Key>::value, Private::ADL::SupportsQMap<Key>::value>
     {};
 
-    //! Associative container with value semantics, chooses a sensible default implementation container type
+    // forward declaration
     template<class Key, class Value, template <class...> class Impl = AssociativityTraits<Key>::template DefaultType>
-    class CDictionary : public CValueObject
+    class CDictionary;
+
+    //! \private
+    template <class Key, class Value, template <class...> class Impl>
+    struct CValueObjectStdTuplePolicy<CDictionary<Key, Value, Impl>> : public CValueObjectLegacy
+    {};
+
+    //! Associative container with value semantics, chooses a sensible default implementation container type
+    template<class Key, class Value, template <class...> class Impl /*= AssociativityTraits<Key>::template DefaultType*/>
+    class CDictionary : public CValueObjectStdTuple<CDictionary<Key, Value, Impl>>
     {
+        //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::compare
+        friend int compare(const CDictionary &a, const CDictionary &b)
+        {
+            if (a.m_impl.size() < b.m_impl.size()) { return -1; }
+            if (a.m_impl.size() > b.m_impl.size()) { return 1; }
+            return 0;
+        }
 
     public:
         //! The implementation container
@@ -408,22 +424,6 @@ namespace BlackMisc
         //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::getMetaTypeId
         virtual int getMetaTypeId() const override { return qMetaTypeId<CDictionary>(); }
 
-        //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::isA
-        virtual bool isA(int metaTypeId) const override
-        {
-            if (metaTypeId == qMetaTypeId<CDictionary>()) { return true; }
-            return CValueObject::isA(metaTypeId);
-        }
-
-        //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::compareImpl
-        virtual int compareImpl(const CValueObject &other) const override
-        {
-            const auto &o = static_cast<const CDictionary &>(other);
-            if (m_impl.size() < o.m_impl.size()) { return -1; }
-            if (m_impl.size() > o.m_impl.size()) { return 1; }
-            return 0;
-        }
-
         //! \copydoc BlackMisc::CValueObject::marshallToDbus
         virtual void marshallToDbus(QDBusArgument &argument) const override
         {
diff --git a/src/blackmisc/propertyindexvariantmap.cpp b/src/blackmisc/propertyindexvariantmap.cpp
index afb62c12f..874c6a7a8 100644
--- a/src/blackmisc/propertyindexvariantmap.cpp
+++ b/src/blackmisc/propertyindexvariantmap.cpp
@@ -117,24 +117,6 @@ namespace BlackMisc
         return qMetaTypeId<CPropertyIndexVariantMap>();
     }
 
-    /*
-     * is a
-     */
-    bool CPropertyIndexVariantMap::isA(int metaTypeId) const
-    {
-        if (metaTypeId == qMetaTypeId<CPropertyIndexVariantMap>()) { return true; }
-        return this->CValueObject::isA(metaTypeId);
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * Compare
-     */
-    int CPropertyIndexVariantMap::compareImpl(const CValueObject &/*otherBase*/) const
-    {
-        qFatal("not implemented");
-        return 0;
-    }
-
     /*
      * Marshall to DBus
      */
diff --git a/src/blackmisc/propertyindexvariantmap.h b/src/blackmisc/propertyindexvariantmap.h
index f63573a8d..6e89138df 100644
--- a/src/blackmisc/propertyindexvariantmap.h
+++ b/src/blackmisc/propertyindexvariantmap.h
@@ -27,12 +27,16 @@ namespace BlackMisc
     // forward declaration
     class CPropertyIndex;
     class CPropertyIndexList;
+    class CPropertyIndexVariantMap;
+
+    //! \private
+    template <> struct CValueObjectStdTuplePolicy<CPropertyIndexVariantMap> : public CValueObjectLegacy {};
 
     /*!
      * Specialized value object compliant map for variants,
      * based on indexes
      */
-    class CPropertyIndexVariantMap : public CValueObject
+    class CPropertyIndexVariantMap : public CValueObjectStdTuple<CPropertyIndexVariantMap>
     {
 
     public:
@@ -155,12 +159,6 @@ namespace BlackMisc
         //! \copydoc CValueObject::getMetaTypeId
         virtual int getMetaTypeId() const override;
 
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::isA
-        virtual bool isA(int metaTypeId) const override;
-
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::compareImpl
-        virtual int compareImpl(const CValueObject &other) const override;
-
         //! \copydoc CValueObject::marshallToDbus
         virtual void marshallToDbus(QDBusArgument &argument) const override;
 
diff --git a/src/blackmisc/valueobject.h b/src/blackmisc/valueobject.h
index ce003709f..abc2a72ac 100644
--- a/src/blackmisc/valueobject.h
+++ b/src/blackmisc/valueobject.h
@@ -168,6 +168,22 @@ namespace BlackMisc
         using PropertyIndex = Policy::PropertyIndex::Default;   //!< PropertyIndex policy
     };
 
+    /*!
+     * Policy classes for use by classes with incomplete migration to CValueObjectStdTuple.
+     *
+     * This is to make it easier to apply the necessary changes to these classes for #356.
+     * \todo Remove this and finish migrating classes that use it.
+     */
+    struct CValueObjectLegacy : public CValueObjectStdTuplePolicy<CEmpty>
+    {
+        using Equals = Policy::Equals::None;        //!< Equals policy
+        using LessThan = Policy::LessThan::None;    //!< Less than policy
+        using Compare = Policy::Compare::None;      //!< Compare policy
+        using Hash = Policy::Hash::Own;             //!< Hash policy
+        using DBus = Policy::DBus::Own;             //!< DBus policy
+        using Json = Policy::Json::Own;             //!< JSon policy
+    };
+
     /*!
      * Standard implementation of CValueObject using meta tuple system.
      *
diff --git a/tests/blackmisc/testvalueobject.cpp b/tests/blackmisc/testvalueobject.cpp
index 8820c594a..bdae3ad12 100644
--- a/tests/blackmisc/testvalueobject.cpp
+++ b/tests/blackmisc/testvalueobject.cpp
@@ -23,84 +23,6 @@ namespace BlackMisc
         return s;
     }
 
-    /*
-     * metaTypeId
-     */
-    int CTestValueObject::getMetaTypeId() const
-    {
-        return qMetaTypeId<CTestValueObject>();
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * is a
-     */
-    bool CTestValueObject::isA(int metaTypeId) const
-    {
-        if (metaTypeId == qMetaTypeId<CTestValueObject>()) { return true; }
-
-        return this->CValueObject::isA(metaTypeId);
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * Compare
-     */
-    int CTestValueObject::compareImpl(const CValueObject &otherBase) const
-    {
-        const auto &other = static_cast<const CTestValueObject &>(otherBase);
-
-        return compare(TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(*this), TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(other));
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * Marshall to DBus
-     */
-    void CTestValueObject::marshallToDbus(QDBusArgument &argument) const
-    {
-        argument << TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(*this);
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * Unmarshall from DBus
-     */
-    void CTestValueObject::unmarshallFromDbus(const QDBusArgument &argument)
-    {
-        argument >> TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(*this);
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * Equal?
-     */
-    bool CTestValueObject::operator ==(const CTestValueObject &other) const
-    {
-        if (this == &other) return true;
-        return TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(*this) == TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(other);
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * Unequal?
-     */
-    bool CTestValueObject::operator !=(const CTestValueObject &other) const
-    {
-        return !((*this) == other);
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * Less than?
-     */
-    bool CTestValueObject::operator <(const CTestValueObject &other) const
-    {
-        if (this == &other) return false;
-        return TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(*this) < TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(other);
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * Hash
-     */
-    uint CTestValueObject::getValueHash() const
-    {
-        return qHash(TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(*this));
-    }
-
     /*
      * Property by index
      */
@@ -115,7 +37,7 @@ namespace BlackMisc
         case IndexName:
             return CVariant::fromValue(this->m_name);
         default:
-            return CValueObject::propertyByIndex(index);
+            return CValueObjectStdTuple::propertyByIndex(index);
         }
     }
 
@@ -139,42 +61,9 @@ namespace BlackMisc
             this->setName(variant.value<QString>());
             break;
         default:
-            CValueObject::setPropertyByIndex(variant, index);
+            CValueObjectStdTuple::setPropertyByIndex(variant, index);
             break;
         }
     }
 
-    /*
-     * Register metadata
-     */
-    void CTestValueObject::registerMetadata()
-    {
-        qRegisterMetaType<CTestValueObject>();
-        qDBusRegisterMetaType<CTestValueObject>();
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * Members
-     */
-    const QStringList &CTestValueObject::jsonMembers()
-    {
-        return TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::jsonMembers();
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * To JSON
-     */
-    QJsonObject CTestValueObject::toJson() const
-    {
-        return BlackMisc::serializeJson(CTestValueObject::jsonMembers(), TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(*this));
-    }
-
-    /*
-     * From Json
-     */
-    void CTestValueObject::convertFromJson(const QJsonObject &json)
-    {
-        BlackMisc::deserializeJson(json, CTestValueObject::jsonMembers(), TupleConverter<CTestValueObject>::toTuple(*this));
-    }
-
 } // namespace
diff --git a/tests/blackmisc/testvalueobject.h b/tests/blackmisc/testvalueobject.h
index 5447f742f..7c9f372c7 100644
--- a/tests/blackmisc/testvalueobject.h
+++ b/tests/blackmisc/testvalueobject.h
@@ -22,7 +22,7 @@ namespace BlackMisc
     /*!
      * Value object encapsulating information of a server
      */
-    class CTestValueObject : public BlackMisc::CValueObject
+    class CTestValueObject : public BlackMisc::CValueObjectStdTuple<CTestValueObject>
     {
     public:
         //! Properties by index
@@ -51,71 +51,16 @@ namespace BlackMisc
         //! Set description
         void setDescription(const QString &description) { m_description = description; }
 
-        //! Equal operator ==
-        bool operator ==(const CTestValueObject &other) const;
-
-        //! Unequal operator !=
-        bool operator !=(const CTestValueObject &other) const;
-
-        //! Less than operator <
-        bool operator <(const CTestValueObject &other) const;
-
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::getValueHash()
-        virtual uint getValueHash() const override;
-
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::toJson
-        virtual QJsonObject toJson() const override;
-
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::fromJson
-        void convertFromJson(const QJsonObject &json) override;
-
-        //! Register metadata
-        static void registerMetadata();
-
-        //! \copydoc TupleConverter<>::jsonMembers()
-        static const QStringList &jsonMembers();
-
         //! \copydoc CValueObject::propertyByIndex
         virtual CVariant propertyByIndex(const BlackMisc::CPropertyIndex &index) const override;
 
         //! \copydoc CValueObject::setPropertyByIndex
         void setPropertyByIndex(const CVariant &variant, const BlackMisc::CPropertyIndex &index) override;
 
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::toQVariant
-        virtual QVariant toQVariant() const override
-        {
-            return QVariant::fromValue(*this);
-        }
-
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::fromQVariant
-        virtual void convertFromQVariant(const QVariant &variant) override
-        {
-            Q_ASSERT(variant.canConvert<CTestValueObject>());
-            if (variant.canConvert<CTestValueObject>())
-            {
-                (*this) = variant.value<CTestValueObject>();
-            }
-        }
-
     protected:
         //! \copydoc CValueObject::convertToQString()
         virtual QString convertToQString(bool i18n = false) const override;
 
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::getMetaTypeId
-        virtual int getMetaTypeId() const override;
-
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::isA
-        virtual bool isA(int metaTypeId) const override;
-
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::compareImpl
-        virtual int compareImpl(const CValueObject &other) const override;
-
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::marshallToDbus
-        virtual void marshallToDbus(QDBusArgument &argument) const override;
-
-        //! \copydoc CValueObject::unmarshallFromDbus
-        virtual void unmarshallFromDbus(const QDBusArgument &argument) override;
-
     private:
         BLACK_ENABLE_TUPLE_CONVERSION(CTestValueObject)
         QString m_name;